Tuesday, October 02, 2007

An ongoing dialogue

Here is a dialogue taking place on the FFAP blog. This encapsulated what I believe about PP and it's exploitation of women.

First, let me tell you that the clinic did open today. In response, a pro-abort commented ~

"I'm so glad that our voices, women's voices, have been heard!! The right choice has been made here…to offer reproductive health services to everyone. To have a safe place set up for everyone to get affordable health care that otherwise they would've never had. This is a major step for women's rights!! Thank you EVERYONE who supported Planned Parenthood and who's voice helped to open this clinic!!"

my response ~

There are quite a few women's voices that are not being heard, and that is from women like ME who disagree that encouraging women to be used as sexual objects is a good thing.

The dignity and strength of women is undermined by using the gift of sex as recreation. Women suffer from this emotionally, spiritually, and are the ones to pay the largest price physically with STD's, infertility, increased risk of cancer and either unplanned pregnancy or abortion. This benefits men the most, by letting them continue to view women primarily as sexual objects, and then, should a child result, pressuring women to abort and save them from being real men.

As I have been praying at the clinic these last 50 odd days, it has always been men screaming at me from their quickly passing cars to "keep it legal".

Of course that is what men such as these would want, at a tremendous cost to the women they sleep with.

Planned Parenthood simply facilitates recreational sex, then provides women with "protection" that regularly fails, then treats the failures. They make lots of dollars for this "service", at the expense of women and their wholeness.

Planned Parenthood exploits women for money.

Please, just do not include me in "women's voice have been heard" when lauding PP's entrance into my city. It makes me steaming mad.

Another pro abort takes up the baton ~

No one finds the abortion decision or process an easy one. And from a moral standpoint, it is wrong to have such a procedure done. But the fact is that abortons will happen, Planned Parenthood or not, and it is therefore necessary to have such clinics available to the public.

On a personal note, I am outraged that anyone, be it male or female feel that thay have the right to tell me, or inhibit me from doing what I want, or do not want to do with my own body. I logically understand the arguments og pro-lifer's, but if they feel that abortion is wrong, then they have the choice not to utilize these facilities. I however, am glad that the option is there.

Several of the arguments in the above comments are contradictions. You complain of men yelling out of their cars to keep it legal, yet in the past weeks, there have been men lined up with signs and grotesque pictures protesting. Are pro life males acceptable, and pro choice men wrong? At the same time, you have been exploiting teens and children in your quest. On what level are they able to create an independant, objective opinion on the subject? And what alternatives do you and your organization provide had all these fetuses not been aborted? Who would supply them with healthcare? Who would put them through college? Who would support the parents? What about in the case of rape? (Talk about womens rights…)
I have visited several adoption sites, and there are thousands of children up for adoption, and not enough loving and caring families out there for them. If adoption is in the childs best intrest, why not protest against the fact that gays are unable to adopt?
You are entitled to your opinion, and I am mine. Just don't force feed yours down my throat everytime I drive home or pick up my mail: As one of the protestors signs read: "If it is okay to kill off unwanted children, why not kill off the unwanting mothers?" Disgusting.

I applaud your efforts and determination, but PP has been allowed to open. Let them do their work.

My response:

I was not complaining about the men yelling, just making an observation that is was only men yelling to keep it legal. That is self serving for them, not compassion for women. Men are the largest beneficiaries of abortion, as they can continue to use and discard women without any responsibility.

There are oodles of services offered for women who choose not to abort, as I am certain you already know. (Check out the bottom of this very page for a toll free number. Just one example.)

There is a huge desire for babies to adopt if you would just be honest.

And this is the best,

"And what alternatives do you and your organization provide had all these fetuses not been aborted? Who would supply them with healthcare?"

If PP was really a "Comprehensive Health Care Center", this would be offered to women seeking help at PP, not just abortion.

But despite PP's lack of true health care, there are options in our community for affordable health care here in Aurora already (VNA, Aunt Martha's and others).

Please, these tired old arguments are just not going to fly here. We have been fighting thes injustices for way too long to be persuaded by your empty, false compassion.

Bottom line, death is never a solution to social problems. I do not deny there are difficult questions to answer regarding abortion, but I do know death is not the answer.

And you'll just have to get used to our praying and protesting, because we are not going away.

Bear with me. Her response~

First of all, I have no problem with the clinic being where it is. I just have a problem with some of your scare-tacticts. I will not ask for the clinic to leave, nor will I ask you. Nor do I have a problem with the protestors - once again, you are entitled to your opinions. But I am mine as well, and I do not appreciate my choices be condemed due to subjective religious beliefs. Man is selfish, and henceforth religion is interpretive. How I view my choices and how you view yours are two differtent things. And I assume that many of the responses I have received are from Catholics, because none of you have attacked the question of gays being allowed to adopt…?
One of the many beauties of freedom of speech.

Secondly, if you are arguing womens rights, then there are several factors that should be included, and to lenghty to be included in this forum. In short, womens rights are all-encompassing. One can not select elements that suit oneself to argue. Simone De Beauvoir (one of the great feminists of the 20th century) argued that womens rights, amongst other things, should include everything, both positives and negatives, and one of her strongest statements is that a woman is in control of her own body and self. Wouldn't it then be a step back in feminist argument, to return to a "clothes hanger" method of abortion? (hate that expression by the way)

Thirdly, where is the responsibility of women? Women are too equally responsible for their pregnancy as men are. I am by no means arguing that there are not males that flee from their responsibilities, however women do have the power to say no. And although PP does provide abortions, they also provide proactive solutions to women in order for them to take care of themselves, their bodies and futures.

And finally, my reply~

" In short, womens rights are all-encompassing. One can not select elements that suit oneself to argue. Simone De Beauvoir (one of the great feminists of the 20th century) argued that womens rights, amongst other things, should include everything, both positives and negatives, and one of her strongest statements is that a woman is in control of her own body and self."

Am I, then, to assume S.d B. would be in favor of no legal restrictions on any woman's behaviour? She may prostitute herself, molest children, murder, steal and use drugs. It seems to me th at society has placed lots of restrictions on people's use of their own bodies.

My point being, especially in PP's case where they actively target young girls, with little life experience to make sound choices, sometimes societal limits of behaviour are for the good of the whole, other times for the good of the individual.

Engaging in recreational sexual activity leads to an objectification of women, a lack of respect for women, and even if they don't mind being objectified and used, the price they pay is a heavy one.

I object to the degrading of woman promoted as a good thing. I object to exploiting women and girls at their most vulnerable times (sexual intimacy and early pregnancy) for profit and gain.

I object to PP's casual dismissal of parental involvement in teens decision making, especially when speaking of the above vulnerable times in a yound girl's life.

I object to PP motives in disguising abortions as comprehensive health.

I object to the false compassion PP has for women. We have real health care here already. We don't need the exploitation of women and girls in our community.

I do think this was a civil, intelligent conversation. I haven't addressed my own feeling much about this, just given the updates. And this probably will be all I will say on the matter, as this isn't an anti-PP blog. But for what it is worth, this is how I think about it.


Blogger Daisy said...

Isn't it odd that whenever the truth is told, it becomes "scare tactics"?

It makes my skin crawl every time my 2 year old niece's "dad" picks her up for his court appointed visitation day. The same "dad" that wanted my sister to abort this precious baby.

October 04, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, you certainly handled that way better than I would have. I was yelling at the computer just reading the responses of the pro-aborts. Why is it that when people become liberals all logic and intelligence fly out the window? All capacity for calm logical discussion is wiped out? My Philosophy tutor in college said that it is impossible to argue with people who won't accept basic truths. The only thing to be done with people like that is to beat them over the head with a stick! It definitely applies to people arguing the old tired arguments for abortion and birth control.

October 04, 2007  
Blogger Kristen Laurence said...

I am an adoptive mother. I spend my days loving and nurturing my girls, and cannot imagine life without them.

Statistically, for every healthy infant in America there are fifteen couples waiting. For that ONE child. Prospective adoptive mothers and fathers will wait many months to years for a baby. Just one.

What I wouldn't do to have one of those babies about to be aborted. They ARE wanted, and they could be loved, if women would only give them a chance.

October 04, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But she wasn't talking about adopting babies. She was talking about older children. She's right when she says there are a lot available for families. Are they unwanted? It is obvious that prospective parents want infants. By the way, I only ask this question because it haunts me. My husband and I have always wanted to adopt, but money and children (we have 8) keep putting it off. Maybe we should have made it more of a priority.


October 05, 2007  
Blogger Renee said...

I am certain there are some heart breaking cases of older children awaiting adoption, but that doesn't justify abortion. If it is acceptable to kill pre-born children because they are "unwanted", then it would be acceptable to kill born children because they are "unwanted". That just isn't how we value human life.

My point being, many babies being considered for abortion could be adopted if given the chance to be born. What to do about the older children awaiting adoption is another issue, one really unrelated to abortion.

Actually, I take that back. Many older children are in foster care awaiting adoption because of abuse. Do you know how much child abuse has risen since abortion was legalized? According to the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, in 1973, there were 167,000 cases of child abuse reported in the United States. In 2002, the Department of Health and Human Services reported 1,694,756 child abuse investigations in the United States. In 450,817 cases, the abuse was confirmed, and in another 58,964 it was determined that abuse was “indicated.”

Once children are seen as valuable only when they are wanted, it isn't a huge leap to see why child abuse is on the rise. Thus, more children in foster care. A vicious cycle, it seems.

Thank you Sharon, for allowing me to elaborate on that point.

October 05, 2007  

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